Jonathan Payn on BBC Radio York, Spring 2008

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® Birmingham Royal Ballet
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18 June 2008

Transcript

So the Birmingham Royal Ballet are in town; performedlast night at York Theatre Royal, and will do so again twice today. Jonathan Payn, who is First Soloist with the Birmingham Royal Ballet and also acting Company Manager, good morning.

Good morning to you.

Lovely to see you after, well, you had a bit of a do last night, didn't you?

We did, our end of tour party, yes, but I did behave myself, I was in bed not long after midnight!

You see I assumed dancers would have [an attitude of] 'My body is a temple', and you wouldn't let go or...

Well, 99% of the time, but you have to let go now and again and last night was a good chance.

You had a good one. But as we said, performing again today, a fantastic performance yesterday evening, really really enjoyed it.

Glad you enjoyed it.

From the very classical, with the Bach, the double concerto, which was very classical to start with, to a very sort of modern piece with quite percussive music by John Cage, which was wonderful because it was sort of an interpretation of a relationship for a man and a woman.

Absolutely. And isn't that music so strange? It's for a prepared piano, which has all sorts of nuts and bolts and bits of loft insulation in and all sorts to make those weird percussive sounds - it's a good piece.

But it was brilliant, because I was watching and I kept thinking 'I've done that!' - there was a bit where she sort of strops off and I was thinking 'that's quite like me!' And then we had Take Five - I nearly called it Take That, which is not correct - Take Five, which is to music by Dave Brubeck.

That's right, by our Director David Bintley, who choreographed it just last year.

Which is just so exuberant, really, isn't it.

Yes, with a live quartet, who make a great sound, don't they?

Yes, it was really wonderful. So, Jonathan, you're First Soloist, you're a dancer and have been a dancer all your working life. You were steeped in it, because you were telling me last night that your mum's a dancing teacher.

That's right, yes, I went into my mum's dancing school from the age of about six, until I was 16, when I went to the Royal Ballet School, the Upper School for two years, 16 - 18. But actually my mum tried to put me off at first. She sent me to another teacher in the same town to get it out of my system; 'He'll do it for a couple of months and then give up', like my older brother did.

Did she not really want you to be a dancer?

Well, I don't know, I just don't think she wanted to push me in one direction. I've always done what I've wanted to do. Because ballet mums don't have a good name, but she never was like that in the slightest, she actually tried to put me off, but once she saw how keen I was she was very encourgaing, very supportive, and taught me all I know for ten years.

But you're 33 now, and your current title gives us a clue as to what's happening in your life, you're starting to move more into the management side of things.

Well, a little bit yes, I acted as Company Manager for our mid-scale tour last year as well, this is my second year now, and it might be an area I'll move into, but I want to keep dancing for the moment!

How long can you be a First Dancer for?

It's a difficult question. If you're doing the high energy dancing roles, you know, mid-30s, late 30s, any more than that and you're pushing it. But I'm very lucky in that I also do a lot of the acting roles and the character parts, the mime parts, and you can do those for many years to come.

Because I was thinking that Margot Fonteyn danced until she was in her 60s, is that right?

At least into her 50s, certainly.

And Nureyev danced until quite late on as well didn't he?

Absolutely. I don't know how they did it, and they still looked fantastic too.

And Sylvie Guillem, she's well into her 40s now.

Yes, and she's moved more into the contemporary side, working more with people like Akram Kahn, and people like this, so she's changing the way that she's dancing, but she's still an incredible dancer.

But is it difficult to, you know, start to move off the really sort of athletic roles, the roles that you'd have killed for at some point in your career! And to accept that inevitably, whyile 33 is hardly old, for a dancer, it's starting to be a factor.

Well it is, I mean it's funny to be starting to talk about retirement in your mid 30s! I mean it's not really retirement, more moving into another area, but it is hard to start to think about that because if you've been doing it for fifteen years, I mean, I want to keep on doing it, but you love it, you get the adrenaline rush from it, and you start to think 'well, how am I going to get that adrenaline rush in my next job?' It can be quite addictive.

I should imagine it's not an esy thing. But I suppose when you get into it, you must be thinking that you're not going to be able to do it at that level for more than a decade or two?

Well, you're right, but luckily at Birmingham Royal Ballet we're very well looked after medically. We've got the Jerwood Centre which looks after us extremely well. Physios, Masseurs, you nanme it we've got it, to help to prolong our career.

Apparenlty dancers' feet are something awful, I won't ask you to show me yours!

No, I've got them safely under the desk!

Are they pretty knobbly and gnarly?

I couldn't possibly say! I think the girls' feet are slightly worse from going en pointe.

Well it's interesting because I was thinking when I was watching you guys dance last night about how you remember all the steps. I mean, is it just automatic or do you have to think: 'right, next I go over to that corner and I do that'?

By the time that you're on stage it is just automatic, or at least it should be. I mean, you'll be thinking it through like that when you're in the rehearsal studio sometimes, you can be reahearsing sometimes for three weeks, six weeks. But you don;t actually think about it when you're on stage.

But surely there are times when somebody does forget something, and the whole thing goes wrong and you have to all work round because somebody has done something wrong?

It can happen, but it's how you hide it, that's the secret!

The audience would never know, I'm sure.

Well, hopefully not!

Could you go into a dance that you did a year ago, or once you've done it is it out of your head and gone?

Oh, you can go straight back into it again longer than a year ago. five years ago, you know, once you hear the music again it's like muscle memory.

Really?

Yes, of course you might need to practice and rehearse it a little bit, but you remember the steps quite clearly.

Fascinating, your body rememvers even if you're brain doesn't!

Yes, absolutely.

Jonathan Payn is with us from the Birmingham Royal Ballet. First Soloist... that means top dog, does it, for a soloist?

Not quite top dog, no, there are Principals above, it's all very hierarchical.

Because I would have thought that 'Firsts' would be right up there then.

Like First Officer on a plane, but no, not quite.

So what's the hierarchy then?

Well, you join at Artist, which is like the corps de ballet then First Artist, who sort of lead the corps de ballet, then you get Soloist, then First Soloist, then Principal.

Ah right, okay. And presumably you're touring a lot, I mean are you away from home a great deal?

We tour for about, maybe 12-16 weeks a year around the UK. And abroad - we've just got back from Japan this year, and we're off to China next year.

So it really is life in a suitcase?

It can be, yes, absolutely.

And you're a relatively small Company are you? How many of you travel at any one time?

Well, for our main scale touring there are about 60 dancers.

Oh right.

Then an orchestra of about 40-45. Then you've got your crew, technical department, wardrobe, admin staff... it's well over 100 people on the road.

The logistics of that must be huge!

Massive, absolutely massive.

Because you don't realise. You see a large handful of dancers on stage but then you don't realise all of the backup that goes into it, which must be immense.

And then of course what's interesting at the moment is that with the Company split in two, half the Company are in the South-West, and the other half are here in York, so everybody is having to do extra responsibilities, so it's a great learning curve for everyone!

Well thank you very much, it's been great to meet you, and I hope it's not been too hot this afternoon!

It's been a pleasure, thanks for asking me.

ENDS

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